what exactly does "right so" mean? | Options |
Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:37:47 PM |
Joined: 2/19/2011
Posts: 27
Neurons: 81
Location: United States
it seems to be an adverb-type idiom to me but what does it mean exactly? i came across it in le morte darthur
Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 8:30:12 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,965
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
A little hard to tell out of context, JB. I'd guess it's an intensified form of ' indeed '.
Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 8:50:12 PM |
Joined: 1/6/2010
Posts: 940
Neurons: 2,752
Location: United States
excaelis wrote:
A little hard to tell out of context, JB. I'd guess it's an intensified form of ' indeed '.
I agree. Right so=so right=just right=correct.
Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:39:18 PM |
Joined: 2/19/2011
Posts: 27
Neurons: 81
Location: United States
i think i figured it out by typing the phrase into google books and digging around. it seems to be an archaic way of saying "just then" or "immediately afterwards". for example (i am making this up on the spot): he called his servant's name. right so he heard him answer.
Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 9:56:06 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,965
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Ah, of course.
Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 11:49:38 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 1,937
Neurons: 45,980
Location: Orange, New South Wales, Australia
If it was said here in Oz then it would be, ('Yeah,) right! So?'
Similar to 'so what?'
Comment; I kicked 3 goals last week. Reply;'Yeah, right! So?' or, 'so what'. Translation,'who cares'.
As it is in ' le morte darthur' I very much doubt that anything 'Oz' would apply,
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:02:27 AM |
Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 18,351
Neurons: 59,731
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Right so is used in Irish-English (please, any Irish readers, forgive me for that juxtaposition!)
"Is it right so?" means "Is that right?" or "Is it right like this?" It can also be used as a sort of "Let's get going" if someone say "Right so" simply by itself ...but I suspect that isn't the way it is used in the cited text.
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:46:29 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 8,507
Neurons: 484,443
I have heard or used this phrase to show a sense of ditto, indeed, okay, exactly.
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 4:49:08 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 30,356
Neurons: 126,822
For those of us not currently having a copy of Le Morte D'Arthur by our beds....
Quote: WHEN the knight saw him lie so on the ground, he alighted, and was passing heavy, for he weened he had slain him, and then he unlaced his helm and gat him wind, and so with the truncheon he set him on his horse, and so betook him to God, and said he had a mighty heart, and if he might live he would prove a passing good knight. And so Sir Griflet rode to the court, where great dole was made for him. But through good leeches he was healed and saved. Right so came into the court twelve knights, and were aged men, and they came from the Emperor of Rome, and they asked of Arthur truage for this realm, other else the emperor would destroy him and his land. Well, said King Arthur, ye are messengers, therefore ye may say what ye will, other else ye should die therefore. But this is mine answer: I owe the emperor no truage, nor none will I hold him, but on a fair field I shall give him my truage that shall be with a sharp spear, or else with a sharp sword, and that shall not be long, by my father’s soul, Uther Pendragon. And therewith the messengers departed passingly wroth, and King Arthur as wroth, for in evil time came they then; for the king was passingly wroth for the hurt of Sir Griflet. And so he commanded a privy man of his chamber that or it be day his best horse and armour, with all that longeth unto his person, be without the city or to-morrow day. Right so or to-morrow day he met with his man and his horse, and so mounted up and dressed his shield and took his spear, and bade his chamberlain tarry there till he came again. And so Arthur rode a soft pace till it was day, and then was he ware of three churls chasing Merlin, and would have slain him. Then the king rode unto them, and bade them: Flee, churls! then were they afeard when they saw a knight, and fled. O Merlin, said Arthur, here hadst thou been slain for all thy crafts had I not been. Nay, said Merlin, not so, for I could save myself an I would; and thou art more near thy death than I am, for thou goest to the deathward, an God be not thy friend.
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:38:26 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 38,564
Neurons: 283,608
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Yes - in this context, it would be "immediately" or "shortly afterward".
Also note, the word "or" used in its archaic sense of "before"
OR - (ôr) Archaic
conj.
Before. Followed by ever or ere: "I doubt he will be dead or ere I come" (Shakespeare).
prep.
Before.
American Heritage
But I like the Oz version "Right....So?" ["Right" as a sort of unbelieving acknowledgement, then "So?" meaning "I don't care" or "So what")
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:15:13 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 30,356
Neurons: 126,822
and 'an' seems to mean 'if'.
And all that starting sentences with And, and no speechmarks! fails on grammar all round
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 1:35:20 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 38,564
Neurons: 283,608
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hmmm... quite.
And "other else" meaning "or else" - it's amazing how the English manage to understand each other (though often, we don't!)
And I managed to start the last sentence with "And" - perhaps I should have put "Also,".
But what do I do with sentences I want to start with "But"?
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 3:08:22 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 30,356
Neurons: 126,822
that was the modern version, so I thought the original spelling would be more, um, idiosyncratic.
but it is clearly modern English...
(not the same part, but the drift is the same)
[quote]HIt befel in the dayes of Vther pendragon when he was kynge of all Englond / and so regned that there was a myȝty duke in Cornewaill that helde warre ageynst hym long tyme / And the duke was called the duke of Tyntagil / and so by meanes kynge Vther send for this duk /
[/quote]
the spelling here is not even consistent within the same passage (duk, duke) but whether that is Malory, Caxton or the google uploader is moot...
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 3:21:11 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 30,356
Neurons: 126,822
this is the comparable bit
Quote:
THan the knyght sawe hym lye soo on the ground / he alyght and was passynge heuy / for he wende he had slayne hym / and thenne he vnlaced his helme and gate hym wynde / and so with the troncheon he set hym on his hors and gate him wynde / and so bytoke hym to god / and seid he had a myghty hert and yf he myght lyue he wold preue a passynge good knyȝt / & so syr Gryflet rode to the court where grete doole was made for hym / But thorowe good leches he was heled / and saued / Ryght so cam in to the Courte xij knyȝtes & were aged men / and they cam from themperour of Rome / & they asked of Arthur truage for this realme / other els themperour wold destroye hym & his land / wel said kyng Arthur ye are messagers / therfor ye may say what ye wil other els ye shold dye therfore / But this is myn ansuer I owe themperour noo truage nor none will I hold hym / but on a fayr felde I shall yeue hym my truage that shal be with a sharp spere / or els with a sharp swerd / & that shall not be long by my faders soule Vtherpendragon / & therwith the messagers departed passyngly wroth / & kyng arthur as wroth / for in euyl tyme cam they thenne / for the kyng was passyngly wroth for the hurte of sir Gryflet / & soo he commaunded a pryuy man of his chambre / that or hit be day his best hors and armour with all that longeth vnto his persone be withoute the cyte or to morowe daye Ryght so or to morow day he met with his man and his hors and so mounted vp and dressid his sheld / & toke his spere and bad his chamberlayne tary there tyll he came ageyne / And so Arthur roode a softe paas tyll it was day / & thenne was he ware of thre chorles chacynge Merlyn / and wold haue slayne hym / thenne the kyng rode vnto them / and bad them flee chorles / thenne were they aferd whan they sawe a knyght and fled / O Merlyn said Arthur / here haddest thou be slayne for all thy craftes had I not byn / Nay said Merlyn not soo for I coude saue my self and I wold / and thou arte more nere thy deth than I am for thow gost to the deth ward & god be not thy frend
Ryght so!
also, interestingly 'themporour' - it looks like 'the' used to take contractions!
Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:04:54 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,965
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Chances are it was Malory, spelling being somewhat peripatetic in the period.
Do as you will, an you harm none. The Wiccan Credo an meaning as long as.
Posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:07:58 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,589
Neurons: 31,236
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
thar wrote:
that was the modern version, so I thought the original spelling would be more, um, idiosyncratic.
but it is clearly modern English...
(not the same part, but the drift is the same)
Quote:
]HIt befel in the dayes of Vther pendragon when he was kynge of all Englond / and so regned that there was a myȝty duke in Cornewaill that helde warre ageynst hym long tyme / And the duke was called the duke of Tyntagil / and so by meanes kynge Vther send for this duk /
the spelling here is not even consistent within the same passage (duk, duke) but whether that is Malory, Caxton or the google uploader is moot...
It's all of the above, and then some.
To a great extent, Google relies on computerized optical character recognition (OCR), "crowd-sourcing" review via Captcha (many of the visual "clues" are unresolved scans of documents), and volunteer oversight. Unfortunately, this rarely includes those who are expert in the languages or the variety of scripts involved. The result, you should excuse the expression, is the McDonaldization of literature. Sure, many more people have access to the information than before, but the quality of curation has suffered greatly.
The good news is that the digitized copies of the printed material are of sufficient quality that competent persons should be able to make the appropriate redactions at some future date.
Posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:28:44 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 30,356
Neurons: 126,822
yes, the 'an' in the modernised version has been written as '&' in the 'original', but was this '&' meaning 'if'? That seems a step too removed?
Posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:06:31 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,589
Neurons: 31,236
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
thar wrote:
yes, the 'an' in the modernised version has been written as '&' in the 'original', but was this '&' meaning 'if'? That seems a step too removed?
Please forgive this bear of little brain, but I have sod-all idea what you are on about?
Posted: Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:54:40 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 38,564
Neurons: 283,608
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
thar wrote:
yes, the 'an' in the modernised version has been written as '&' in the 'original', but was this '&' meaning 'if'? That seems a step too removed?
I am only guessing here, that your "original" is actually a later copy, and your copyist misunderstood "an" to be a contraction of "and".
"...said Merlin, not so, for I could save myself an I would; and thou art more near thy death than I am, for thou goest to the deathward, an God be not thy friend." sort of makes sense if you read "and" for "an". However "as long as" or "if" makes more sense, but he doesn't use the "&" sign for other ands.
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2011 6:45:31 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 30,356
Neurons: 126,822
yes, that is what I figured must have happened(and what lz was saying about incorrect transcriptions).
But if you cannot trust google to give you a correct transcription of a fifteenth century text at midnight in my own bedroom - well, what is the world coming to!
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2011 11:58:31 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 38,564
Neurons: 283,608
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
I would have thought any good bookshop in Iceland would have a copy of the original Old English! I assume they have trouble just keeping all the versions of Leif Eriksson's biography in stock.
Google got drunk on his birthday - maybe you could try again.
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2011 2:02:12 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 30,356
Neurons: 126,822
Heck, why should I buy ancient books, I have Google and Gutenberg on my side
academic books though, darn it, where is Gutenberg when you really need him!!
Posted: Friday, September 30, 2011 6:26:34 PM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 47,927
Neurons: 676,083
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
Aren't these self-describing?
[image not available]
Posted: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:20:32 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 38,564
Neurons: 283,608
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thanks for the runes.
I have two somewhat off-topic questions (though they do follow from the direction the thread has gone)
1. Do the words "Fehu", "Uruz", "Thurisaz" et al have
meanings? Some of them seem a bit long to be just the name of the rune.
2. How do I post an image on here? I tried the "Image" button at the top and got the code {img} {/img}(with square brackets), but when I "copy/paste" your "runes" image, nothing happens
Posted: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:36:00 AM |
Joined: 2/20/2011
Posts: 1,296
Neurons: 3,887
Location: Spain
This thread has gone Wildberg.
Posted: Saturday, October 1, 2011 9:25:53 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 47,927
Neurons: 676,083
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Thanks for the runes.
I have two somewhat off-topic questions (though they do follow from the direction the thread has gone)
1. Do the words "Fehu", "Uruz", "Thurisaz" et al have
meanings? Some of them seem a bit long to be just the name of the rune.
2. How do I post an image on here? I tried the "Image" button at the top and got the code {img} {/img}(with square brackets), but when I "copy/paste" your "runes" image, nothing happens
When you find a picture worth of sharing copy its address (click the pic with the second mouse button and select from the pop-up menu),
and paste that address between the image tag brackets, like:
Code:
[img]http://www.crystalcavern.com/media/runes.jpg[/img]
Jmacann:
Most of the threads here go, sooner or later ;-)
Posted: Saturday, October 1, 2011 11:01:58 AM |
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 38,564
Neurons: 283,608
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thank you!
Right so, I will leave this thread to die as the original question has been answered (long ago)
Posted: Sunday, October 2, 2011 4:48:32 PM |
Joined: 2/20/2011
Posts: 1,296
Neurons: 3,887
Location: Spain
Cute -fair enough, DOnspeaker.